Specialized lost their way? Out of touch?

This is about Specialized every-day bikes, not road or mountain.

is anyone buying them?

It seems like 99% of electric bikes I see where I live are fatboy style; Dirodi being the most common, by far, and it’s across the age spectrum. These retail for approx $2.5k AUD.

We’ve been considering one and thought to check Specialized (used to work at a dealer) and see what they can offer. $5.6k starting price and no obvious reason to pay twice as much. There is come copy about how some geeks didn’t drop out of school and the buyer benefits from that.

I’m a fan of the sleeker looking commuter/hybrid bike, but 21 different models at 2-3 times the price of locally popular models has me wondering what the future holds for Specialized’s hybrid section of the business. I’ll finish with their Vado description:

“Calling it an ‘E-Bike’ is an Insult

Turbo Vado SL 2

Nothing delivers more power, speed, and range at such lightweight than Turbo Vado SL 2. It’s a high-performance machine carefully engineered to make fitness fun, and your commute electric. With an ultra-light weight alloy frame, Future Shock for an ultra-smooth ride, an ergonomic position for telepathic handling, and a super light electric motor with supernatural power, the bike you’ve been dreaming about is here“

I’m gonna hold off giving a crazy long-winded answer, mostly because I’m not great at typing well-developed thoughts, and because there are waaay more knowledgable people out there.

I would say it comes down to two things for any large bike brand, Specialized is not unique: where and how e-bikes are defined in law, and how much would a brand be willing to dump into product dev to potentially get their hands slapped and/or produce a product that can become a huge liability down the road.

The e-bike landscape is such a wild-west right now in terms of what people will be wanting to/can ride in their area next year, let alone in five years, that bringing a product to market that can be serviced and sold reliably and profitably is darn near impossible. Will throttles be banned? Will there be speed limiter requirements? In AU? What about the US? Europe? What battery tech and regulations are out there?Sure, Spesh, Trek, Giant can bring a relatively affordable model to market (e.g. Globe, Townie Go!), but it takes a ton of time and a category that will demand very little spec change through the product life cycle.

The mobility crowd needs something low cost, adaptable, and serviceable; which are contradictory characteristics when we are talking about getting a global network of dealers accustomed to and confident enough to service the bikes and motor systems without an unacceptable degree of liability for both the manufacturer and it’s direct retail channels, as well as independent dealers of all sizes. As a result, the easiest product to slap a prestige brand name on is a high-end, very categorically-defined (hardware-wise) bike at can be sold at a profit margin that makes the R&D and roll-out worth it.

The buy-in of mechanics and dealers is not only a nice selling point that distingushes the big name brands from e-bike specific brands, but it is the only mechanism for those companies to bring an e-bike product to market. Specialized cannot introduce an e-bike model that does not have mechanic certification/safety design as top priority in any other channel (i.e. direct, via online retailers), and so they must put that money into developing those resources. There’s no other way around it.

That’s also just the mechanics of the bike; the selling of a motorized vehicle is a jurisdictional and liability-laden minefield. In the US, the state of New Jersey just passed a law requiring permitted operation, insurance, and an age limit. How are traditional retailers supposed to deal with that in NJ, but also the bordering states? There are two Trek dealers on the opposite banks of the Delaware river between PA and NJ, will there be liability for cross-state resident sales? Probably not, but do you want to be the indie shop that finds out? Specialized needs to be able sell not just you (the rider) a bike, but first and foremost that shop owner a piece of inventory they can sell - hopefully quickly to an eager, satisfied customer; but at the bare minimum, legally and without excess “wait wait wait, I’m a co-defendent?” risk.

For $5.6k, Specialized isn’t selling you just an e-bike; but a rigourously tested machine that is a low-liability as you can find, with a mechanic that can work on it, and - for good-measure - buying that mechanic’s independent shop a sand bucket to stick swollen batteries into and a recycling contact for disposal down the line - all without employing a single engineer (but a few lawyers) in the whole of Australia.

Lastly, comparing all that to the business model of a direct-to-consumer e-bike brand that has no customer support, dealer interaction, or, increasingly so, technical support of any kind. The extent of that company’s investment is producing a bike with the quality target of “just don’t get anyone killed to avoid the unanimous passage of a Congressional bill called “Kid who died riding our e-bike”’s Law”. That product’s compliance for import to any given country is what can make it to port in three months, with future compliance being tommorrow’s problem. And lastly, any product support and maintanence is fully on the end-user. That is maybe not the $3.6k right there, but definitely $3k.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many other factors and such nuance in this part of the industry that I can’t really get into, but this might be a bit of a primer of it. I said I wouldn’t be long-winded, but :person_shrugging:t4:. We’re all endurance athletes here - we have a lot of wind.

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Cheap e-bikes are shit mechanically, have dubious/incendiary battery and charger systems, and the fatboy style bikes are as far as I can see always ridden irresponsibly by idiots. Why would Specialized - who are way more likely to have to stand behind their products and/or be sued - want to get into that market?

Last week 35 illegal e-bikes were crushed by the authorities in QLD, and that’s a start at least - but there are thousands more out there that need doing.

If there are people riding e-bikes (or other e-things) in a reasonable and legal manner in Sydney I’m not seeing them.

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I’m a Sydney-based bike shop owner who’s closely followed e-bike development and regulation for the last 15 years, and my first thought is: you’re comparing apples and oranges here.

Dirodi (and almost all the other fat-tyre “e-bikes”) are e-mopeds, not e-bikes. They weigh roughly double what an e-bike weighs (~40kg). They don’t have height-adjustable saddles (they’re not designed to be propelled by pedalling effort). And, crucially, their motors are waaaay overpowered compared to the legal limits for e-bikes, which is why teenagers can dink their friends at 50km/h (they will claim that they’re software limited to 250W continuous rated power and 25km/h max which is the legal limit, but these restrictions are easily defeated, and as Bicycle Industry Australia has pointed out, if a motor is capable of a higher power output, it can’t meet the regulations through software limits). This also applies to most of the e-mopeds that delivery riders are using (though some are on e-bikes).

There are many parts of government cracking down on e-mopeds. Fair Trading NSW brought in regulations that target electrical safety, because of battery fires. The Federal government has done some work (but not enough) to tighten up import regulations. NSW Police have been confiscating e-mopeds and unregistered e-motorbikes, mostly because of dangerous riding.

I get why they’re popular - they’re cheap, powerful, don’t require a license, and the fat tyres mean they’re much more forgiving of poor riding ability. I really hope that as they’re gradually forced out by the various crackdowns, the riders transition onto real e-bikes.

Now the other side, the Specialized Turbo Vado SL is a bicycle with some motor assistance - it’s an e-bike. The function of the motor is to give you a gentle boost and flatten out the hills, not as the primary mode of propulsion. If you ride this e-bike and a Dirodi e-moped, you’ll notice the difference immediately!

If you’re looking for a cheaper e-bike, and you’re not in a rush, wait a few months for the X-Lab e-bikes to arrive in Australia. I haven’t seen one in person but if they’re as good as they look online, we’ll be stocking them. As the recent Escape podcasts have been saying, that’s the comparison to the Specialized e-bike that you should be making.

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And we can’t even call them EBSOs since they’re not even shaped like bicycles.

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Almost nobody services the shit e-bikes here. If they didn’t sell it they won’t service it. And even then.. It would appear the Canadian government is about to recognize that bikes with motors are, shockingly, motorized vehicles and will require them to be licensed, have licensed riders and, most importantly, insurance.

Yeah agree with the above. Did some research a while ago while considering buying my partner an e-bike. The e-bikes from companies like specialized are just better made and you get a support network. They are a whole different beast so the prices aren’t really comparable. Good luck getting support and service for an off brand e-bike.

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