I’d love to tap into the collective wisdom here and see if we can design the ultimate endurance/training bike for under $3k.
For context, I race on a Dogma F. It’s phenomenal when I want to go fast, but after long rides I definitely feel more beaten up than I’d like. My goal is to build a bike that I can comfortably ride all day.
I found the 2019 Cannondale Synapse (40mm spacers) to be a bike that I could ride all day pain free so I’m using that geometry as my benchmark.
At the moment I’m leaning toward the unreleased LightCarbon Aero Gravel frame. Geometry-wise it seems to be the closest match to the Synapse (with 20mm less spacers), and I like the idea of having the option to throw on wider tires if I ever feel like it hitting dirt.
My current build idea is:
LightCarbon Aero Gravel frame (pic below)
105/Ultegra Di2 compact groupset
35 mm Continental 5000 TR tires
Optimized 50mm Chinese carbon wheels (looking for suggestions here, ID of 25mm+?)
Am I thinking about this the right way, or is there a flaw in my logic? Are there other frames I should be considering around this price point (sub $US1000)? And if you’ve built up one of the newer Chinese carbon frames, I’d love to hear about your experience, especially wheel recommendations.
I’ll be building it myself, defo want a threaded BB and I’m leaning integrated Handlebars.
In my experience, it’s better to have separate on and off road bikes. The geometry and gearing that is ideal for road simply isn’t ideal for off road. Don’t get me wrong, you can definitely ride an endurance or “all road” bike on compact dirt or ride a gravel bike on pavement, but they are limiting. I guess what I’m saying if you want a road bike, build a road bike.
Have you considered the Fairlight Strael in the tall geometry? Also might be worth considering custom steel (or Ti depending on budget). I think the ultimate bike is the one that fits you.
There is fit and handling. These are intertwined to some extend.
Fit-wise, you need a shorter stem for the LC. https://www.bikegeo.net/ is your friend. Mind that this tool does not take handlebar reach into account.
Handling-wise, these frames are quite different, I think.
Fwiw, when it comes to Chinese brand wheels, I’m really happy with my set of LightBicycle wheels. (I think the Falcon WR series with 25mm id has in the mean time been superseeded by new rim models, though.)
Is it just the geo that lets you ride pain free all day? Or is frame compliance a part of that too? A gravel frame may be less compliant than an endurance road frame (ime) because the wide tires can do a lot. I’ve never ridden a Synapse but I think it’s noted for being quite a comfortable frame.
This, but with my point being your geo chart takes no account of stem, seatpost, and where the seat angle puts the saddle in relation to the front of the frame. The frame reach, stack, seat angle etc are important, but only in how they can play into ‘actual’ reach, stack and saddle to hoods distance.
Have you measured the position on the Pinarello and Cannondale, using the bottom bracket as the fixed point that you measure from? It’s not impossible that the position on the two are just slightly different -maybe not enough to notice initially, but enough to cause the issues you mention.
If you can, draw a wireframe type diagrams of each frame with seatpost, saddle, bar and stem, to scale - or find an online tool that will do that for you - and overlay to compare.
Strongly agree that road and offroad geo and especially gearing should be different. Something intended for gravel racing can most likely do both - if things don’t get too rough or technical - but the tyres and gearing really can’t be optimised for both at the same time. The ranges of both conditions and personal preferences make it difficult to recommend anything…
Be aware also that gravel bikes and frames are increasingly 1x only which may affect your choices if you might prefer 2x.
For 35mm or larger tyres I personally wouldn’t be looking at rims narrower than i25mm, and these should in theory be okay with 29mm+ tyres, especially if hooked. Wider could work too, depending on the minimum tyre width you might use.
As for integrated cockpits, internal everything, ISPs, pressfit BBs, and proprietary steerers and seatposts, they’re all best avoided IMO, particularly if you’re going to do the upkeep, would like to have options in the future, and aren’t keen on buying new tools.
Building a road bike. I currently take the dogma off road once or twice a year for light gravel, can’t see why I couldn’t do the same with another road bike that i slap wider tires on.
It’s being more upright, I feel more comfortable on the synapse with 28m tires than the dogma with 32mm tires at 50 psi.
Again, looking to build a road bike. Off road is a bonus if it happens at all.
A “race gravel” bike might suit you? See for example the recent stuff that Jesse from the Nero Show is doing with the Tavelo Grow frame. He’s using it to test wide road tyres e.g. those 40mm Pirellis simply because such tyres don’t fit on most road race frames (as you might know the Nero boys are fully bought into the ‘wider is better’ mindset). But, the implication is, I believe, that the Grow is perfectly fine as a road endurance frame. Jesse did say he wouldn’t race it, because its handling isn’t as snappy as a road race frame, but that doesn’t seem to matter to you anyway.
If I was going to buy a bike for riding on Gravel, I’d get a Gravel frame. You’ll also definitely need gravel wheels, I think. Most road frames, even endurance frames, probably won’t stand up to anything other than a hard-pack gravel road, I reckon. Wheels the same. Neither are made for the forces travelling through them on a rough patch of gravel. And gravel bikes typically make for OK road endurance bikes, just with the right wheels and tyres, at least that seems to be the consensus among most reviewers.
And that seems to be way forward with what you’re looking at. I wouldn’t go with integrated handlebars at first, I’d buy cheaper stems and bars or use what I had at hand until I sorted out what worked for me geometrically and then I’d buy the one-piece bar based on the final fit.
If that’s the frequency you ride gravel and the Dogma can handle it, then no reason. Gravel means very different things to people. For a lot of people, they go off road and it leaves them with a desire to go deeper out there and the local terrain demands more capability. I was one of those folks.
Personally, I’m buying my 3rd gravel bike because I keep wanting more off road capability (mullet 1x and 50+ mm clearance this time).
As someone else already mentioned, gravel frames are often pretty stiff/sturdy because they have to survive occasional crashes and can rely on vibration absorption from big tires. They can have a harsh ride with road tires. Just be aware of that.
Good advice thanks. I’m struggling to find a Chinese endurance frame that has the kind of stack I’m looking for. It’s the only reason I thought this gravel frame would be a good fit. Might have to keep looking.
The lack of stack on the Chinese frames is frustrating. It seems like there are some pretty nice frames now but none of them have stack that would work for me either
I was looking at the Light Carbon Endurance Frame, it’s higher than the rest of the frames coming out of that market. Alas it’s still about 5mm lower than I’d like (with spacers) hence why I was looking at their gravel frame which is 15mm higher than their endurance frame.
Thanks for the wheel reco. Re bike fits, I’m well versed at this point at tweaking geometry. I sized up on the dogma to get the extra stack and run a shorter stem. Was planning on doing the same with the Light Carbon, or whatever frame I settle on.
