I’ve a vitus razor with 8 speed Claris, Which performs.,. Fine, but I feel a need to upgrade it. What does the EC hive mind recommend? I want to do it on the cheap, second hand recommendations are very welcome, as are far east groupset recommendations. Ideally hydraulic.
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What brake mounts does your bike have?
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Tiagra is pretty good, but 105 mechanical isn’t much more expensive if you search around.
I would steer clear of anything Chinese, as the mechanical stuff is unlikely to be much of a step up from Claris, and the electronic stuff has reliability issues and function quirks (in another generation or two they might be worth looking at more seriously). Other issue with Chinese stuff is they are partial groupsets, and so when you factor in cranksets, cassettes and chains, the perceived cost savings are often wiped out.
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A few issues here Ronan. 8 speed hub spacing is narrower than most things on the market these days. And standards, bloody standards shift inexorably with the passage of time. You could do worse than have a look at MicroShift’s stuff. It all works, and you’d be buying a mini groupset (levers, rear derailleur etc) rather than the whole thing. Here’s a link to Dave Rome’s podcast where the gang talk about it.
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8 speed hub spacing is narrower than most things on the market these days.
I didn’t consider the hub spacing, but I think that’s partly because many hubs have been spaced for 11 speed for a long time, with spacers typically used with lower level cassettes. I had a road bike that came 10 speed, but the unbranded OEM hub was 11 speed compatible, and that was a decade ago. It’s not an isolated case that I’ve seen.
That said @ronan_O_Cualain , you’ll need to check the cassette compatability - remove the current cassette and check if there are any spacers behind it, and then double check the HG freehub spacing by measuring it.
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1281646-what-speed-freehub.html
You could do worse than have a look at MicroShift’s stuff
Is that really any better than Claris though? I am familiar with Microshift Advent X, and it’s good, but Shimano Deore is better. If Microshift Sword is of a similar level to Advent X, then Tiagra is better.
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Before upgrading a relatively low-price bike, I think you should think a bit about where you might be heading with your cycling in the next few years. It would be a pity to pay about half the value of your bike for upgraded shifting only to find out afterwards that you’d also like nicer wheels, a different cockpit, a lighter frame, and so on. Before you do replace all that on the Vitus, you’d be much better off just spending a little more on an entirely new bike and selling the Vitus. So I’d suggest you think about how long you see yourself riding this bike and whether you already have all the itches for replacing other things.
If you do want to hold on to this bike, a higher level Shimano group certainly would do the trick. Second hand on those is also a good idea. There should be some mechanical groups out there for sale since electronic is getting more and more popular.
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This is a fair point. However, if the Vitus Razor is something like this one, it’s not a bad frame to upgrade, but there will be a sensible limit on what you should hang off it.
Improving the groupset to get hydraulic brakes is sensible, but certainly don’t go crazy. Wheels and carbon seatpost (assuming they are not already upgraded) will have a bigger impact than a fancy groupset.
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Hey, point taken, it’s a good snappy frame, and it’s hard to find a good lightweight alloy frame these days with mudguard mounts, forgot to mention it’s for a winter build
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What aspects of performance seem lacking or not up to the standard you’d want?
Braking performance is noticeably lacking in wet weather, missed shifts are another drawback
I don’t have personal experience with it, but isn’t this what Shimano Cues is for?
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Claris includes rim brakes and flat-mount mechanical disc calipers. Guessing you have the latter, since you mentioned hydraulic, but not sure. If mechanical disc, have the pads been bedded in and has the braking been dialed-in as much as can be?
RE: missed shifts, are you confident the shifting is well-adjusted and dialed in? Shimano 8-speed indexed stuff has a very good record on working well.
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Further to this …
The majority of mechanical disc brakes are not great - they take a lot of effort and understanding to dial in correctly, and even then don’t tend to work much better than rim brakes, particularly if they are single-sided actuation (only one pad moves).
If wet weather braking is lacking, it’s likely a question of pad compond and/or rotor quality/material. Cost/benefit of sorting those vs replacing with hydraulic system is likely questionable.
Gearing should be completely fine, and 8 speed should be pretty tollerant of miss-aligned hangers etc., so totally agree re double checking indexing, limits and cables. Other key question would be what’s the chain wear like?
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with the notable exceptions that the two mechanical disc calipers with the best reputation (Paul Klamper, and Growtac Equal) are single-sided. Apparently Paul went this route to ensure durability. Maybe Growtac (which came to market a few years later) followed Paul’s logic and success.
I think of the ranking of mechanical disc calipers as
Paul Klamper & Growtac Equal > Spyre/Spyke (dual-pad actuation, but reputation for less durability) > cheaper/earlier single-pad calipers (lots of variability - some folks in bikepacking world still use BB7s with 200mm rotors)
It’s also possible that there’s been more development in mechanical-caliper world since I last gave this much thought.
Good point, but then they cost the same as a hydraulic setup (levers and callipers), so they need to be amazing. Most mechanical callipers cost a 10th or less than those.
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