@Dave_Rome , having just listened to this weeks episode and all the talk about punctures at Paris–Roubaix and it got me thinking again. I’m still using clincher tyres with tubes on my road bike in the UK and have never really had a big issue with punctures. Due to this despite all the noise I haven’t felt the need to switch to tubeless yet. With all of the punctures at this years race after everyone has switched to tubeless it just makes me think are they really the next step? All I hear is issues with hookless rims, getting tyres on and off wheels, topping up sealant, etc and I just want reliable tyres that can be easily fixed on the rare occasion that I get a puncture. Have we actually invented a problem and clinchers were the solution all along? Keep up the great work with the podcast
I’ve been saved by tubeless, and been failed by tubeless. I’m back on team clincher for now, mainly because I was tired of the maintenance.
I’ve been using tubeless for 3 years and am definitely going back to tubes. I’ve had punctures that I didn’t know about until I noticed a “white spot” on a tire. some time after a ride. That’s something that would never happen with a tube. I know everyone’s experience is different, but I’ve never had issues installing and seating tubeless tires or removing them. For me, tubeless require very little faff.
I don’t hookless rims. I never bought the reasons put forward for hookless being superior.
As for Paris-Roubaix and the flats there, I don’t see anything revelatory about tubeless vs clinchers vs tubular tires. It was the fastest edition of the race, and I think part of that is down to the pros being able to ride tires that allow lower pressures without worrying about pinch flats. That means less fatigue from the cobbles and more speed over the cobbles, apparently a lot more speed. That speed can mean bigger impact forces. I think some teams were running pressures too low, but that’s just a guess. It could also be that this year was just a statistical anomaly, an outlier. I think it’s a mistake to draw conclusions from that race when we don’t know the reasons for every flat that happened. Guesses–even educated guesses–aren’t data or evidence.
I went tubeless 6 years ago and went from having to fix flats on the roadside every month or so to a single time so far, when I had to use multiple Dynaplugs. Meanwhile, during nearly every group ride I join, someone running inner tubes has to pull over and waste 10-15 minutes of everyone’s time fixing it.
It’s a tough one to answer. I do think tubeless solves some problems, but it also introduces other compromises that aren’t for everyone.
For Roubaix, all teams (as far as I know) were on tubeless. I’d say the flat rate would have increased for clinchers, and I base that purely on the failure mode witnessed. Most flats were impact-related, likely where the tyre bottoms out onto the rim with enough force to cut the bead of the tubeless tyre. In that scenario, a tube will always fail far sooner. Newer tubeless technologies, such as inserts and wide/flat rim beads (all popular in mountain bike and now gravel), exist to further reduce the likelihood of this type of flat – I don’t see those wide/flat beads used on many road race wheels (yet).
Am I confusing punctures with tyres “burping”? Listening to another podcast (sorry) they mentioned the tyres were burping air at the rims due to their hookless construction when hitting cobbles as they were at such speeds they were struggling to pick their line. Hence why there were stories of teams gluing tyres at the rims in an effort reduce this?
so rather than suffering punctures they were actually suffering flats
I don’t seem to remember a bandwagon to ditch tubeless after last year’s Paris-Roubaix. It seems like one race where there were a bunch of punctures/flats have many people suddenly questioning tubeless for their own bikes. The pros are at another level and have a completely different set of concerns than recreational riders. If I were to ever ride those cobbles, I doubt that riding over at 10-15 mph, having a clear view of the path, and picking the cleanest line would even give me one puncture on my tubeless set up, and certainly no better with tubes. I’ll stick to my tubeless set up until such time that it actually gives me problems that outweigh the benefits.
Yep, burping was certainly an issue in Roubaix this year. That’s effectively where the tyre is momentarily unseated from the rim. Higher pressures, certain inserts (not all), and glue are all methods to counter this.
It’s an issue that mountain bikers had to overcome some 20 years ago for tubeless. An event like Roubaix is asking a whole lot from technology that was largely designed for racing on smooth pavement.
Tubes on my randonneur bike (up to 42mm), tubeless on trail bike (2.8s). The cost of switching is not insignificant.
I did the Paris Roubaix Challenge this year as part of Trek Travel’s Spring Classics trip (amazing tour company and trip, BTW. It’s our second trip with them and they are worth every dollar for us).
Anyway, there were 22 of us riding the event and there wasn’t a single flat. The setup was Trek Domane, 32mm Bontrager tires set up tubeless on the stock Bontrager carbon wheels. The tires and sealant were new at the beginning of the tour. The guides were experienced and set tire pressures based upon rider weight. We rode the Flanders fondo and other rides with cobbles on them the week before doing Roubaix.
On the Roubaix Challenge, Arenberg was the first cobbled sector and I had at least 1 rim strike that I remember. I maybe had another on Carrefour but some of it was a blur. The event was crowded and it wasn’t always possible to pick the best line. I saw a lot of people fixing flats along the course.
But I had no flats, no loss of pressure. No one else in our tour said they had any issues either. I am sure it would have been different had we been running tubes. So for that, tubeless was the way to go.
All that said, here at home in the US PNW, I’m still team tube inside on my SuperSix Evo (Vittoria Corsa Pro / latex tubes, but will probably switch to Silca TPU in future). Tubeless on my MTB and commuter.
I was tubeless about 10 years ago and I loved that I didn’t have a flat during that time. However, I didn’t enjoy the upkeep and maintenance that came with it. Since that time, I have gone back to tubes on my clinchers and tubeless tires with latex and TPU tubes. Since switching back to tubes, I have not had a flat (knock on wood) in the last 7 years with about 35-40,000 km of mostly road riding and occasional gravel other than self inflicted pinch flats that I caused while installing tires. I’m 100% team tube inside