Entry fees are outrageous

I eagerly await this post, bureaucrat to bureaucrat. I was the wrong kind of bureaucrat to speculate using professional expertise, so on vibes and pattern recognition I see three things here:

  1. (Major) inflation
  2. (Minor) Enshitification / ensweatification
  3. (Mostest major) Wealth distribution is (more) bimodal (than it already was during the time horizon most of us remember individually from life experience)
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You need to come ride in the UK if you think you’re being ripped off :wink:. £25 ($35) is discounted pre entry for a 40 minute CX race. The Fred Whitton sportive is £112 ($160) for 112 miles with a short section of closed roads and 2 feed stations - and sold out with about 2000 riders on a waiting list. Dragon Ride in Wales is a similar cost, all on open roads, the longest version much more expensive and again sold out.

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Without volunteers, races struggle to break even in Australia unless the entry fees and sponsors cover core costs. Police hate closed roads. And then there’s traffic management. My club in Melbourne had to can its famous criterium series - it used to attract pro riders - after the local council rezoned the course. An evangelical church moved into the area and complained about access. Council’s solution was to demand we hire a couple of dozen professional traffic coordinators for each race day. We lost thousands of dollars. Amd there’s little chance riders would pay $100 for a crit so that we could break even. There went the crits that helped many riders including Kell O’Brien and Grace Brown learn and tune their race skills.

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While not a cycling event, I help put on southern AZ’s largest festival, the Winterhaven Festival of Lights, which is a Christmas festival, solely contained within our neighborhood. Our costs this past Christmas to put on the walking only through the neighborhood from 6-10pm was ~ $120k USD for the 14 days we run it with over 200k visitors to the event.
In the past I’ve been an RD & worked for a RD & timing company on triathlons, running races, open water swims and a few mtn bike races.

I skimmed the comments yet I didn’t see mention of the costs of:

barricades

portable toilets

security

fencing

signage

trash bins

getting the trash from the bins into the dump

permits for not only the roads but the parks/common areas that events may use -not to mention the park often has a separate fee(s) depending upon what amenities and how much of an area you take up with your race

fuel for the generators

the truck & trailer & fuel to get equipment to set up the race to the race site (granted the truck & trailer costs are spread out over many races and many years. Those two right there can be a $100k investment)

often you’re paying some costs to the set up/tear down crew

making a donation to the organization that got a lot of volunteers out to the race

the amount of time behind the scenes where you’re negotiating with the permit agency/agencies about your security plan, your emergency response plan, this plan and that plan.

There is usually a flat cost for the timers to show up and then a per rider cost for the actual timing.

If the race crew is showing up the day before to set up the race now you’ve got hotel & food costs to add to the total costs.

When the race production company shows up to set up the race you’re often 20-50 paid hours into that race and no one has gotten out of the truck or even set up the start line.

People think entry fees = road closures, LEO cooperation, t-shirts & awards. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Hope that helps shed some light

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One group (at least here) that has kept fees really low is the local Randonneur groups.

I’ve never done any beyond 100k but the 100k is still $10 and has at least one well manned food stop. The events go up in price in $5 increments as the durations get longer. (Obviously they are really long, out to 600k rides) I can’t remember but you might have to pay for the food, but it’s better than most of what you get at a $200 event. They’re much closer to the spirit of the way events used to be.

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Brevets/Audax are basically unsupported, DIY events (save for, say, PBP). They cost little because there’s basically zero overhead: no need to organize start/finish venues, security, road markings, trash pickup, etc.

They are awesome, but they’re also not mass-appeal things. 200km is the minimum distance of proper ACP events to qualify for PBP. Most have fairly threadbare levels of support (e.g. some DIY sandwiches and potluck meal stops), with riders needing to fend for themselves. It’s a very different style of riding - very cool, but very niche.

When people sign up for events they expect return on investment. High entry fees tend to demand more perks, be it full or partial road closures, fully-stocked rest stops, neutral mechanical support, a t-shirt or jersey, chip timing, etc. And as mentioned above, there are a lot of behind-the-scenes things that occur and those costs add up. They want something more than a mom-and-pop, homespun event for entry fees that crest $100-150 per event. Heck: they even want most of these perks at a $50-60 entry level.

And when these events are actual fundraisers for the clubs, teams, or organizations that put them on, there’s a break-even point that has to be met at a minimum.

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For the people here who are saying “I used to pay $35 in 2010 and now it is $100….”, I wonder if they have been to a concert recently???

Seriously though, I don’t think any small time promoter is getting rich putting on events. The ones I have talked to do it mostly for the love of the sport.

Lifetime may be a different story, and I do think the prices for their major events are insane, yet they sell out, so I can’t begrudge them if people are willing to pay it.

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The big brands have clout - and huge marketing budgets. From Lifetime to Ironman, they’re all things people see as a big deal. and people are willing to shell out their hard-earned dough to have that notch on the mantel.

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This can vary a lot. Where I am (New England) the rest stops at a Randonneur event might be every bit or better than the ones at an expensive event. There’s almost no difference at all in terms of riders needing to fend for themselves, perhaps the only difference is whether there is a sag wagon.

Every event is different, but a lot of the things like expensive included clothing or schwag do not necessarily make for a better event, they all have a markup and are used to make more money. In order to have a thread like this you need to have a bunch of riders who are frustrated with the high fees at “full fat” events. People being happy at lower priced events points towards lower priced events still being workable. The main thing low priced events have to have though is some kind of non-profit club or group that is willing to do a little work to put on the event. It is too bad clubs are so dead in the US.

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For me personally the differentiator for your concert argument is that I may go one or two concerts every couple/few years. I used to race crits, road, cross, mtn bike 25-30 events a year from March thru October/November. Paying $200 for a 3 hour concert once in a while isn’t bad, especially if you get two openers and the headliner.

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Completely unrelated to entry fees…

In 1992 my wife and I paid $25 each for two tickets to Lollapalooza. That year, there were 9 bands over the course of the 9-10 hour event. Concert prices now? Fuck me gently with a chainsaw: the prices are horrible now.

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Counterpoint - I want to go to a concert more than once every few years. And when I go, I have to buy a ticket for my wife and sometimes my kids. It quickly becomes a big financial layout.

Don’t get me started on how much money my daughter dropped for Harry Styles tix….and she didn’t even get them on the secondary market.

Absolutely insane.

This makes me appreciate the “grass roots” cycling in Flanders. Just registered for a 110km gravel ride, for 12 eur. All staff are from the “semi-professional” (registered non-profit org.) cycling club. The support in the past was superb: coffee and cake at the start, spaghetti and beer at the end. Plus 2 food stops. They do have a lot of sponsors and support.

Even the Climbing for Life events (cycling trips to the Vosges, Alps, Dolomites… organized by a Flemish charity org.) are less than 200 eur for 3 days (and that includes jersey, nutrition pack, plenty of food stops, and pasta/afterparty).

There are also the 200 eur gravel/ultra events, which then don’t seem worth it. Running events are comparatively way more expensive, e.g. marathon events are regularly up to 100 eur… Other outings (concerts etc.) have also strongly increased in price like mentioned elsewhere. So I’m really cherishing those 12 eur ”amateur” (in the literal sense: lover) rides!

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That’s all you need :grin:

The event organiser is doing all the work and holding all the financial and event risk. All you need to do as a participant is turn up and ride your bike. I think prices are fair, especially in that context.

I have no issues with premium prices for premium events. All other aspects of consumer society have it. It takes time, effort and some luck to build a premium product. If you’ve done that then well done and enjoy your success.

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Great discussion, and I agree with Wade - it’s a very tough business to be in. Was that Ol’ Dirty, Wade?

Current event costs are $2-300 now in Oz (I’m thinking road, gravel and XC MTB). I have to say kudos to Rocky Trail, who’ve almost single handedly kept XC mountain bike racing alive on the Aussie East Coast.

The thread I want to highlight - and a story I’ve plugged to Escape before - is how important local clubs are. As quite a few have noted or described, club racing is vastly cheaper (noting the situation with police, councils and traffic management @Campbell_Fuller - most races in NSW are now all off Government roads, and held on private circuits or parkland crit courses; that said, there is a NSW State Road series).

It’s not just the club volunteers (and a 2km crit course has lower numbers required than a 50km2 gravel area). Club affiliation with the National body usually includes the liability insurance, removing it from race entry (-> you see it in your race licence instead, but that’s similar to football team membership).

And clubs are committed to developing and looking after their members.
They can also apply for and gain lots of local council grants (in Australia at least) to help.

But two situations:

  • Cycling has developed in a way that you can ride lots, and never be a club member. This, I think, is the biggest factor for the emergence of Gran Fondo type events - the de-institutionalised nature of cycling.
  • MTB has had less club infrastructure than road, and say, BMX; but where there are good trails, usually a club has grown up to race them and maintain them.
  • Gravel, as the newest race format on the block, has no club structure that I know of. A few road clubs are experimenting with race formats at the moment.

So, I’d suggest that contributing to your club, or building a club if there’s none around (or none you like), is absolutely key to building a strong racing scene.

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and a given band is a more unique experience than public roads you can ride on your own at will.

1000x this. I just don’t see the benefit of a massive sportive vs. a well organised audax / brevet where the organiser has arranged a cafe or two to be open.

Sportives, like most organised running events (half marathons etc.) are essentially just paying for bullshit that I don’t want, and paying for a load of nasty food that’ll get thrown away.

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Concert prices perhaps says more about how the youth are driven by internet / social media groupthink than actual inflation.
People paying 4 figures to (barely) see a pop star in a stadium must have their brains addled by the ‘tok.