Coll de Rates comparison - more of this please

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I loved what Ronan had to say how about using simulated data too weigh the importance of position and weight up a not-crazy reference climb.

Cycling has decades of people obsessing over grams with the assumption that it matters more than it actually does. Now aerodynamic impact has joined the chat, and its impact can be very real, but has more rider- and position-specificity than typical claims (and thinking around them) figure.

Accurately assessing the impact of weight is pretty straightforward math for a given climbing effort. And something more normal (similar to what many of us might climb in a given week) is more valuable than the Motirolo etc.

Accurate assessment of aerodynamic impact has a lot more variables. But there are very real trade-offs for aero cockpits that put people into suboptimal position, poorly positioned bars where people spend less time in their optimal hand positions.

Ronan could compare his optimal position with a few variants off that position. Maybe this would be a PITA in requiring more wind tunnel time. But would be a great baseline as an example of quantifying the downsides of a suboptimal position because of the “aero with assumptions of everything else being ideal but not adjustable to get there” integrated bar that came with the bike.

Comparisons from these would make a great standalone article, plus a short-version disclaimer that could be added to each bike review article.

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I found that section really interesting, too.

And I know why Dave suggested a 3km 7% climb as being more relatable (than an Alpe) - because the North side of Sydney where Dave lives is peppered with gorges down from a plateau with roads constructed such that they turn out to be about 3km and 6 or 7%. One of Sydney’s most iconic rides is a loop taking three (or four) of these. Mostly a touch shorter, but a bit steeper than the Poggio.

Which has the curious outcome that for many riders in this area, our best efforts are all in the 7-10 minute range. It’s hard to find a good hill for a longer effort - though a hill + the next plateau is an option.

As you say, at that length and gradient, we’re over 20kmh, and aero really comes into it - but so does strategy (for time rather than power). Is it a steady effort? Do you gun for the first minute, then settle? Do you accelerate for the flatter sections? And, of course, a lead out for the first km…

How about we start a list of reference climbs? Here’s a couple on the North side of Sydney/Central Coast:

Bobbin Head West: 463k attempts by 20.6k riders

Akuna Bay (Anti clockwise) - 384k attempts, 24k riders

If we compare the Poggio, it’s 190k attempts, but by more people - 35k. But a long climb like Alpe D’Huez is only 2.5km attempts (??!!) by a little under 2000 people. (Riders must just ride the switchbacks? or is it just too hard? I’ve not been, so I don’t know.)

In comparison, I found this Dark Hill segment in South-West London - though not a climb (rather a short berg, plateau, then descent), has been ridden by 150k thousand riders, and over 4.2 million efforts…

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That’s not the ‘official’ ADH segment - the verified one on strava has 180k riders

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Thanks - I thought it had to be wrong! And yes - this one finishes in the middle of the village with a couple of hairpins to go. I’ll have to get there one year. Nearly 367k attempts by 188k riders. So on average people attempt it a couple of times :wink:

I guess it illustrates the difference between an iconic climb like this, and the local “reference point” where far fewer riders (unless you’re in a huge city like London) do the local climb many times over.

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